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Friday, September 19, 2008

Wind Farms To Be Tax Free For 15 Years

WESB News: 09/19/08 - Cattaraugus County Wind Farms to be Tax Free

Cattaraugus County is exploring four possible wind farm projects. The county is looking into wind farms in Allegany, Little Valley, Ashford and Farmersville.

However, the wind farms would be fully tax-exempt for 15 years under state law.

The State Energy Research and Development Authority says wind farm projects need a 10-15 year-time frame to reach an economic break-even point.

51 comments :

Anonymous said...

Double Yeah for seeing the answer to our energy crisis. I hope the owners of the farms find a much need income.

Anonymous said...

1. Tax exempt(no tax money for the county) This applies for Pennsylvania also.
2. 10 to 15 yeasrs to break even.
3. Poor electric generation (only 20% efficent)
4. Increase in our electric bills (because the electric is expensive to produce.
5. Visual blight on our beautiful hills
6. Extensive rebuilding and massive upscale of the ditribution lines to get the power to NY city at our expence paid for on our electic bills by you and me!
7. Health issues to people who lives will be changed forever with these turbines sited to close to homes.
8. Flashing red lights in synchronized flashing(all at the same time). 1 flash per second x 100's of turbines.
9. Potential damage to springs, wells, trout streams, and water shed because of the extensive 100 ft right of ways cut in switch back roads up to the tops of the hills.
10.4 acre clear cut for each turbine with a 100 ft wide connecting road between each turbine.
11. A massive sub station to be built on the cushion hill. Keep in mind that all these power line upgrades and sub station will be built to handle the electic generated on the name plate of each turbine. The name plate states the total amount of electric produced by each turbine running at 100%. This takes a 27 mile per hr sustained wind, which we DO NOT HAVE in Potter County. Therefore the power transmission lines will be built to handle electric produced by the turbines at the 100% rating but in reality a turbine is only 20% efficent meaning that the transmiision lines will be 80% empty 100% of the time.
12.Very few, Poor quality, low paying jobs. Turbines are erected and maintained by traveling, specialized companies.
13. Damaging effects on tourism. Sure people my come to see the turbines for a short period of time. They drive in look, thank God they aren't in their area and drive away. Where are the benifits to this kind of tourism. Why would they want to ever come here a second time.
14. Property devaluation. No one wants a turbine in their backyard in the first place, then why would anybody buy a home with one already built in there back yard. This leaves the home valueless. The exception to this is the few that have leased their land for turbines. They are willing to sacrafice their (and our) quality of live for dollars.
The more you look at the issues, the worse it gets!!
There is just no reason to have wind turbines in Potter County! There is JUST NO REASON!!!

Anonymous said...

Again somone sites Health Concerns with the wind turbines...

Please tell me what are they and where did you get your information...

FYI---I stand to have no personal or professional gain from windturbines unless it lowers my eletric bill or lowers taxes...

Anonymous said...

"Please tell me what are they and where did you get your information...

FYI---I stand to have no personal or professional gain from windturbines unless it lowers my eletric bill or lowers taxes..."

The Health risks and sites have been posted several times on this blog in detail.
The INCREASE in your electric bills has been explained several times (check the post just above yours.
There is no money at the current time coming to Potter County from wind trubines, so why do do think your taxes might go down. There are no benifits to Potter County. Just "money for me" to a very small few. Even that could be much smaller than they imagine, if it is paid on electic produced it could be very little.

Anonymous said...

Right back at you...until you can prove these statements with scientific facts from mainstream sources and not web sites created by anti wind groups loaded with opinions but no hard facts to back them,you should put a disclaimer with your opinions.I believe there were well over 100 posts on this subject in the past week.Many asked for proven information from from a reliable, sactioned, group, and not once did anybody come up with it!When you can do this everyone will listen.Until then,give it a rest.

Anonymous said...

All these people who are making the claims of illness are making them up for attention or they are crazy.

Yes I know it's hundreds of people in dozens of different areas and in different countries, but it is just a big conspiracy via the internet to stop green energy. You know most of the internet is untrue anyway.

Well not stop it from coming, because the towers are already in their neighborhood, but they probably have some other agenda, maybe 15 minutes of fame or they want them taken down or something like that.

Anonymous said...

"Right back at you...until you can prove these statements with scientific facts from mainstream sources ..."

I am willing to bet that if you smoke cigarettes, there still has not been enough scientific proof for you that cigarettes cause lung cancer.

Anonymous said...

"Right back at you" dude. Give me a break. This goes both ways. No one has posted credible evidence that property taxes for citizens will go down, no has posted evidence that there are not health consideration, no one has posted evidence that wind farms will help tourism. C'mon if you go through all of the posts on wind farms over the last 3 months (and I wish that on no one) you will most certainly find that the folks against turbines have done a much better job of citing sources to back up their claims. Are some from anti-wind groups which raises the smell of bias? Sure. But there have also been articles from Newsweek, AP, etc. Quite franky, the pro-wind people generally hide behind the "it's green and therefore it has to be good" argument. Funny thing that this argument was also made years ago in favor of hydroelectric power, but what do we see now. We see most of those dams being torn down. Anyway, my long winded point here isn't one of Pro Wind or Anti Wind, but to point out that the Anti folks have tried and tried to present certifiable sources for their information, but you pro wind folks instantly deny the credibility of it. mark

Anonymous said...

This indicates it can be heard within a home

Generally there little acoustic energy much above about 4000 Hz so ultrasound is not a problem. <100 Hz) noise can, under the right circumstances, be responsible for annoying nearby residents. Typically, except very near the source, people out of doors cannot detect the presence of low-frequency noise from a wind turbine. They can, however if the noise has an impulsive characteristic, "hear" it within homes in nearby communities again under the right set of circumstances. Often it is not clear with low-frequency noise if people are hearing or feeling it or some combination of both stimuli. Because of the impulsive nature of the acoustic low-frequency energy being emitted, there is an interaction between the incident acoustic pulses and the resonances of the homes which serve to amplify the stimulis creating vibrations as well as redistributing the energy higher into the audible frequency region. Thus the annoyance is often connected with the periodic nature of the emitted sounds rather than the frequency of the acoustic energy

Anonymous said...

Mark
"Anyway, my long winded point here isn't one of Pro Wind or Anti Wind, but to point out that the Anti folks have tried and tried to present certifiable sources for their information, but you pro wind folks instantly deny the credibility of it."

Hey Mark,,,,,,ya need ta walk through life with both eyes open,,,,,,AT ALL TIMES!!!!
1. For every 20 that says they have been affected by the sound,,,,,there is 20 (in that same area) that says they have not!!!
2. For every 20 that says Turbines won't help the area with revenue,,,,there is 20 that says it will!!!
3. For every 20 "certifiable sources" there is 20 "certifiable sources" ta rebut!!!!!
Do ya get my drift????? If not here is a nutter,,,,,
4. Newton's third law states that for every action in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction!!!!!
There ya go Mark,,,,,,blame it on Newton!!!!!!

ENIS,,,,,a Native Potter Countyian

Anonymous said...

"They can, however if the noise has an impulsive characteristic, "hear" it within homes in nearby communities again under the right set of circumstances."

Proof that noise can be heard inside of homes under the right circumstances

Anonymous said...

"ENIS,,,,,a Native Potter Countyian"
____
Owns a red corvette,(Clue from an earlier post). Was born in Chester County, PA.(not a native Potter Countyain at all). Raised on Fox Hill, Ulysses Township and hoopes (I never could spell)to make money by leasing land for turbines at the expense of his neighbors health, safety, and welfare. Their will never be enough proof for him on any issue of the wind farm. Greed is a hard thing to cure.

Anonymous said...

Enis -

Show me the 20 that say they have not. Show me the 20 that say they will help increase revenue. Show me the 20 that rebut. I'm not saying that for every post against wind there is a post for wind. I am saying that if you scour the anti posts you will find many, many more links to their sources of information or cites as to where they obtained the information. I am not seeing the pro-wind folks citing as many sources of authority.

C'mon Enis go back and count them all and you will see the anti's have at least put forth more effort in documenting their opinions. Now is it possible that those sources are bunk...sure. But again this whole sub thread started because someone posted that the antis never give documented evidence. My point is that they try, but whatever they cite as authority gets immediately dismissed. Moreover, I went on to say they cite their sources more frequently than the pro-wind folks. Mark.

Anonymous said...

And your point is what?Outside noise can be heard inside a house?That is a revelation!Just like always you tell half the story.Now shows us the mainstream scientific and medical proof that the turbine noise above all others causes harm to people.You see,without that,this industry cannot be overregulated above the laws applying to any other industry that makes noise.
Better turn off your fridge,it's making you sick.
The smoking thing...Mainstream medical and scientific proof is there.And again, what's your point?Now your putting turbines and cigarettes together?Show me the simularity and the scientific and medical evidence that ties these two together.

Wants to form his own opinion!!! said...

So now there is another one... HEALTH and SAFTEY...

I cant wait to hear this one...

What Are the safety issues with the turbines???

I should know by now not to ask but im interested...

Anonymous said...

Enis, cigarettes and lung cancer was a comparison, obviously it went right over your head again. Have someone read the comparison post to you slowly. Mabe they would then explain it to you also.

Anonymous said...

ENIS wannabe

"Owns a red corvette,(Clue from an earlier post)."
Never once did I say Red!!!! I'm alot older then the ones that were raised on Fox Hill!!!

"health, safety, and welfare."
When ya flick the switch (cause yer scared of the dark),,,,do you think of the "health, safety, and welfare" of others that live next to the polluting plants?????

Ya know,,,,I am a man of my word!!! When I say I won't put yer nose on the inside of yer head,,,,,,I mean it!!!!! No way can you or will you make me that angry!!!! But in the real world,,,,,,naw,,,,there is no way you can muster the courage!!!!!

ENIS,,,,a Native Potter Countyian who is still makin noise

Anonymous said...

Mark
"Show me the 20 that say they have not. Show me the 20 that say they will help increase revenue. Show me the 20 that rebut."

Where would we be at days end???? Right back at the beginning,,,don't cha think?????

"But again this whole sub thread started because someone posted that the antis never give documented evidence."

Whew!!!! Thanks fer bailin me out!!!!! Note this post,,,,,,,

"Enis, cigarettes and lung cancer was a comparison, obviously it went right over your head again. Have someone read the comparison post to you slowly. Mabe they would then explain it to you also."

"My point is that they try, but whatever they cite as authority gets immediately dismissed."

Yep,,,,,,,it works both ways,,,,and it has!!!!!

"I went on to say they cite their sources more frequently than the pro-wind folks."

I think (not a scientific fact) that is because there are more ANTIS then there is PROS on this board!!!!!
After leaving the Court Room on that Thursday night I'll put my trust in the Pros!!! These are good people also!!!! Once again (cause a ENIS wannabe just doesn't get it),,,,,the money doesn't lead to my door!!!!

Enis,,,,,,a Native Potter Countyian

Anonymous said...

Don't know who Enis is,but I'm not him.
Don't you understand that it is not up to the company wanting to install turbines to prove that they do or don't do anything.It is up to those who require them to go beyond the laws that apply to everyone else, to prove there was a real reason to do so. This is still America.Give us facts and you will gather support.Give us anything less and you hurt your own cause.
Example: Turbines and cancer?

Anonymous said...

Enis, your a waste of time. I will never read another comment you write.

Anonymous said...

Have any of the pro-wind folks who are considering leasing land for wind turbines ever thought about other alternative energy sources that could be produced from the same land that would go to house the turbines, access roads, etc.

Here is just one example......

http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/trees.html

As of today the economic returns are not as good for the individual farmer as leasing space for a turbine. But according to the pro-wind folks at the county meeting this wasn't about money, but rather clean and green alternative fuel sources. Well, here ya go. There are many out that are much more efficient, much less controversial, and much more practical.

Moreover, it is likely that biodiesel as opposed to corn based ethanol will be the future fuel for our vehicles (it certainly won't be wind) and when this transition takes place folks "farming" biodiesel wood stocks stand to profit nicely. Mark

Anonymous said...

"Often it is not clear with low-frequency noise if people are hearing or feeling it or some combination of both stimuli. Because of the impulsive nature of the acoustic low-frequency energy being emitted, there is an interaction between the incident acoustic pulses and the resonances of the homes which serve to amplify the stimulis creating vibrations"

It's the vibrations also, silly

So your alowed to vibrate your neighbors house 24/7?

At least you seem to agree they can thow noise and vibration into a dwelling.

I can call a policeman to come and make my neighbor turn down his stereo, but I am supposed to live with noise and vibration coming into my house at all hours of the day and night?

Anonymous said...

Enis -

A round and a round we go....

I certainly agree with you that the pro's are good people too. That's the bummer with this issue. It's pitting good people versus good people. You also score for pointing out that there are probably more antis here than pros and hence it seems more anti information being posted. But I would suggest even taking that into account the antis back up their claims better on this particular blog (doesn't mean they are right they just provide cites to their sources more frequently).

To the other guy that states he is not you (and I believe him) and says....."Don't you understand that it is not up to the company wanting to install turbines to prove that they do or don't do anything." Are you out of your frickin mind??? Can you imagine if that way of thinking applied to the drug companies, automakers, food processors, etc. If you have a product or service you MOST CERTAINLY HAVE TO SHOW THAT IT IS SAFE because as you point out this is America.

Mark

Anonymous said...

and to the folks that claim the wind turbine industry cannot be held to higher standards or stricter regs than other industries...i say..."why not?"...you are being naive if you don't think this happens all the time.

a coal burning plant can emit more pollution than a crematorium (i guess burning coal is more acceptable than burning bodies). an average joe that bulldozes more than 1 acre of property has to get a NPDES permit, E&S plan, Stormwater plan. A logging operation doesn't have to get a permit unless they disturb more than 10 acres (I believe). Heck a farmer can plow under unlimited acres and never has to get such a permit.

Look to the tax code. More a lot of money than your next dollar is taxes at 35%, make a little money and your next buck earned is only taxed at 15%.

I'm going to go on a limb here and say there ain't a regulation in this country whether federal, state, or local that does not contain some type of exemption and as result one could argue is "not fair"

so it might not be fair if the commissioners adopt regulations that treat the wind turbine industry different than other industries, but that's life folks.

Mark

Anonymous said...

The Drug companies do studies, trials and tests before getting FDA Approval. Some get approved, some do not.

And some that are approved, turn out to have greater side effects that hurt people more than they help people and get pulled.

Think of our Commisioners as the FDA for the County.

Anonymous said...

If there is no "annointed study" as the pro's talking points call for, what then?

What next?

The pro's seem to want to drop the whole matter.

Logic would seem the Commisioners have to evaluate the next best available information. Albiet, first hand claims, papers from pro and anti sources, research from pro and anti sources etc.

Each source will have a credability factor, some higher, some lower.

There should be skeptisim for all.

But to say, there is no santified, double blind, 9 out of 10 doctor reccomended, peer reviewed analysis so that's the end of the issue seems to be shortsighted and not very thorough in thought.

It's not like all the anti's are quoting Readers Digest" for their information, it's a little more in depth than that.

Anonymous said...

Lets see if we can put this into some sort of perspective.America is in an energy crisis and it's citizens want to make this country "energy self sufficent" again by greatly increasing the following sources:
Oil and Gas
Biofuels
Wind
Solar
Geothermal
All of these sources have the full backing of the government,which is the arm of its citizens.
The reason that a source like Wind is to be given a tax break,is to help to intice company's to invest in a high overhead,low profit business that will help the country.
To over regulate these companys on grounds like low wages,low output,visual blight,extensive rebuilding and massive upscale(isn't that the whole idea?)enviromental damage,(I believe this is a D.E.P. issue)and last.."The health issue"..This is the only one that can be used to justify setbacks that eliminate wind energy in Potter.The problem seems to be that there is no "clear cut" evidence to prove it.The Commissioners of this county were elected to oversee local government not superceed it.And no, they are not The FDA of Potter County.Nor are they in the position of "King".(Something that seems to have eluded them many times since taking office.)
If the turbines are not allowed to be placed on private property,they will then be placed on state property.(Thousands of acres of Potter County)-(Potter will recieve nothing when this happens.)Wind Turbines will be here.It is what the citizens of this country want.
When it comes to this country and energy to keep it running,
The old saying comes to mind: "Lead,follow,or get out of the way!"

Anonymous said...

"It's not like all the anti's are quoting Readers Digest" for their information, it's a little more in depth than that."

No, you are right, most of it sounds like National Enquirer to me! Gossip rag news papers that PAY people to tell them incrediable stories, what ever!

Anonymous said...

The Safety issue??? Anyone???

Anonymous said...

"Lets see if we can put this into some sort of perspective"......we may be on opposite sides on this one, but an excellent post.

But (sorry there has to be a but) shouldn't the five sources of energy that you mention that need to be increased domestically because that's what the people of the country want be sitused where it makes practical and logical sense.

Natural gas in potter county. Makes sense to me. Solar probably in the southwest portion of the country. wind the mid section of the country and coastal regions where there is actual sustainable wind. Biofuels.....why not here? I asked the question numerous times but never a response. geothermal probably anywhere.

The point is that if you want to use a "we need clean energy" argument to support a particular energy source it has to sustainable long term in the proposed location. Wind is not in Potter County (Bob White will tell you this himself) Source the proposed energy source to the ideal location and you would not need the tax incentives for as long of a period. You will always need the incentives for wind in Potter County. Hence wind doesn't work here.

Now on to another nasty piece of this issue. I toured the facility in Bliss/Eagle New York and I can report that the turbines did not make any noise at all. This was the case standing directly underneath or a mile away. Unfortunately, they didn't make any sound because not one of them was rotating. Not one. This was last saturday. What's up with that.

Mark

Anonymous said...

The one, the ONLY major issue is, keep these monsters away from homes. No non-participating land owner should have their lives changed with a 40 story high, 276 ton, blade spinning monster the length of a football field from his home. What one man will due to another for money is a sin. Keep these MONSTERS away from our homes. Any body that does not have these thngs going 1000 ft or less from thir home should not have any say. KEEP THESE MONSTERS AWAY FROM OUR HOMES.

Anonymous said...

"Enis, your a waste of time. I will never read another comment you write."

Just when I was ready ta release the good stuff!!!!! QUITTER!!!!!!!
HEE HEE

ENIS,,,,a Native Potter Countyian who wore the uniform

Anonymous said...

Mark

"(doesn't mean they are right they just provide cites to their sources more frequently)."

This is where "common sense" overrides most sources!!!!
1. If a Turbine sounds like a Jet takin off,,,,,it's a bad Turbine,,,,,but fixable!!!!
2. If a Turbine is vibrating,,,,,it is unbalanced,,,,and fixable!!!!
3. If a Turbine is an eyesore to some,,,,,but not to others,,,,it becomes an opinion!!!!!
4. Motion sickness is usually caused by starring at "any" moving object!!!!
5. The Sun never goes down,,,,it's just an illusion caused by the Earth spinnin around!!!!!

I try and read all yer posts Mark,,,,,ya raise some good points!!!!!

ENIS,,,,a Native Potter Countyian

Anonymous said...

Mark

"so it might not be fair if the commissioners adopt regulations that treat the wind turbine industry different than other industries,"

Just on Wind Turbines,,,,,,,,,,,
Am I seeing our Commissioners tryin ta set the bar higher than any other County in the Commonwealth???? If so,,,,,this is a concern on the PRO side!!!!

ENIS,,,,,a Native Potter Countyian

Anonymous said...

Saftey issue post. Here is one proof that I am sure will be dismissed just like all the health issues that have been posted.
Vesta is a wind turbine manufacturer. This is right out of there repair manual:

Posted on July 18, 2008 by essexcountywind
Vesta Wind Turbine, Denmark , 2007
Mechanical Operating and Maintenance Manual
Safety Regulations for Operators and Technicians2. Stay and Traffic by the Turbine. Do not stay within a radius of 400m (1300ft) from the turbine unless it is necessary. If you have to inspect an operating turbine from the ground, do not stay under the rotor plane.
Make sure that children do not stay by or play nearby the turbine. If necessary, fence the foundation.
The access door to the turbine must be locked in order to prevent unauthorised persons from stopping or damaging the turbine due to mal-operation of the controller. - Vesta Turbine Manufacturer Safety Manual for Operators and Technicians

Anonymous said...

Thanks to you both!I knew that if we beat this around long enough we could all agree.
I agree that a 1000 foot setback is a good thing.(not the 2300 feet that was proposed)(The Company's are happy)
Thanks Mark for going to look for yourself and letting us all know that they probably do only turn 20% of the time.So much for the noise issue that may or may not cause health effects due to long term exposure.(Everyone happy with this one!)
Turbines producing power 72 days a year(20% give or take) multiplied by several hundred turbines, multiplied by 15 years,equates to alot of electric.(The citizens are happy)
We can keep them on private property and Potter can reap whatever windfalls there are.(The taxpayers are happy)
Property owners can lease their property and reap those benefits(They are happy)
Nobody has to worry about them being located on State Forest.The real reason Potter has so much pristine beauty.(Stargazers are happy)
I think what we have now is Happy! Happy!

Anonymous said...

"I think what we have now is Happy! Happy!"

It must be nice there in your own little world. Unfortunately, the rest rest of us have to live in the real world, and our world is under attack by wind turbines.

Anonymous said...

Safety -
Turbine Blade Throw = almost 1700ft

From
Professor Terry Matilsky matilsky@physics.rutgers.edu

Department of Physics and Astronomy Tel: 1-732-445-3876
Rutgers University
Piscataway, N. J. 08854

Tel: 1-732-445-3876 Fax: 1-732-445-4343

For those of you who don’t want to slog through the mathematics necessary to do this calculation,



THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT ICE, DEBRIS OR ANYTHING BREAKING OFF THE WIND TURBINE BLADES (including the blades themselves) CAN IMPACT A POINT ALMOST 1700 FEET AWAY FROM THE BASE OF THE TURBINE…



WHAT WE KNOW:

RADIUS OF BLADE: OVER 100 FEET

ROTATIONAL SPEED: UP TO 1 REVOLUTION EVERY 3 SECONDS (OR ABOUT 20 REV/MIN)





PRELIMINARY RESULTS:



ROTOR TIP SPEED:

IN ONE REVOLUTION, THE BLADE TIPS SWEEP OUT A CIRCLE WHOSE RADIUS IS OVER 100 FEET. THIS DISTANCE IS 2*PI*R OR ABOUT 628 FEET. IF IT TAKES 3 SECONDS TO MOVE THIS DISTANCE, OUR SPEED IS 628/3 FEET PER SECOND. THIS IS ABOUT 210 FEET/SECOND OR 150 MPH.



When you do the mathematics in detail, you find that launching the fragment horizontally is NOT the worst case scenario for maximum horizontal range. (LAUNCHING FROM THE TOP OF THE TURBINE (horizontally) YIELDS A RANGE OF SLIGHTLY MORE THAN 1000 FEET.)Instead, this maximum distance occurs when debris is released with the blade at a 45 degree angle from the vertical.

Imagine the blade at 45 degrees from its vertical position. At this point, the projectile will be launched about 70 ft. from the horizontal position of the hub. (This is 100 times the cosine of 45 degrees). Also, it will be about 70 feet higher (vertically) than the hub. (Again, we assume that the blades are 100 ft. in length). Thus, the vertical distance it has to fall is 300 feet (hub height) plus 70 feet (vertical distance that the piece of ice, or whatever, is from the hub).

Now, the range for this projectile is:


R= v**2/g (that's "v squared divided by "g", the gravitational acceleration). This is the range to come back down to the ORIGINAL vertical height. So after this distance, it is BACK at 370 feet off the ground.


R=( 210 ft/sec x 210 ft/sec)/(32ft/sec/sec). or about 1400 ft.


Now, at this position, (neglecting air resistance), its vertical velocity is the same as when it was launched (except that it's now going DOWN instead of up). So, the vertical velocity is about 140 ft/sec. (210 x .7 or v cos 45)


The extra time it takes to fall to the ground from this height is:

s= v times t + 1/2 g times t squared.



SO,

370=140 t + 16 t**2


Solving for t, we get about 2.5 seconds. In 2.5 seconds the increase in the range is:


v(horizontal) times t or 140 x 2.5 or about 350 feet.

Thus, the TOTAL range of a projectile is: 1400 + 350 = 1750 feet. From this we subtract the 70 feet that the projectile was behind the hub when it was launched, and you end up with 1680 feet for the horizontal range from the base of the hub.

Anonymous said...

Infrasound is the larger issue, than what you are calling"noise"

Anonymous said...

I would be out of business if I produced a product that was effective only 20% of the time.

Anonymous said...

From GE Power -

"Risk Mitigation
The decision to build a wind site and to protect the public from negative impacts of an extreme wind event is the responsibility of the project developer/owner."

Anonymous said...

All the information from the heavy hitters in the noise & vibration crowd are here.

The good, the bad and the ugly.


http://www.confweb.org/wtn2009/


http://www.windturbinenoise2007.org/

The first Wind Turbine Noise conference took place in Berlin in 2005 and was a great success, bringing together 130 delegates from 22 countries.
The Second Wind Turbine Noise conference took place in Lyon, France in 2007 with more than 150 delegates from 24 countries around the world, representing:

manufacturers
developers
researchers in noise and vibration
environmentalists
pressure groups
consultants

Anonymous said...

Realizing that this link will mean nothing to few and everything to some.

http://www.acousticecology.org/srwind.html

If the thousands of windfarms likely to be built in the coming decade are placed too close to homes, the industry will be faced with an echoing chorus of complaints and resistance for years to come, even if it manages to invent much quieter machines. Better to be conservative, accepting the fact that even occasional atmospheric effects should be factored in to siting decisions today, so as to build a reservoir of good will, rather than a rising tide of complaints.




It is important to recognize that night-time ambient noise levels in rural areas are often 35dB or lower; so, it is not that hard for wind farms to become a new and dominant acoustic presence. All too often, wind developers tell local planning boards that the turbines will be inaudible, which is rarely the case. Similarly, some investigations of noise complaints come to the conclusion that anomalously high noise levels occur so infrequently that they are insignificant (a recent UK investigation of Amplitude Modulation found that it was only an issue 5-15% of the time). But if temperature inversions or other atmospheric stability effects that cause excessive noise occur just 10% of the nights, that means that nearby residents may find their sleep disturbed 35 nights a year. Is this insignificant? Such questions need to be considered directly, not shunted aside.

While the United States does not have national noise standards, many European countries do. These countries, and many state or county regulations in the US, typically set an absolute sound level that any industrial facility must meet. Commonly, 45dB is used as the night-time limit, and 55dB as the day time limit; higher thresholds are sometimes allowed, but rarely does the night time limit drop below 40dB. The problem comes in rural areas, where night-time ambient noise (wind, distant traffic, etc.) is often 35dB, and sometimes as low as 25dB. Given that 10dB is perceived as twice as loud, the problem is obvious.

It should be noted that the majority of wind farms do not trigger noise complaints. These are likely sited far enough away to work well for nearby residents. A 2007 report from the UK found that roughly 20% of wind farms (27 of 133) had received complaints about noise.

French National Academy of Medicine has called for a halt of all large-scale wind development within 1.5 kilometers (roughly 1 mile) of any residence, and the U.K. Noise Association recommends a 1km separation distance

In the US, there is no overall recommendation; siting decisions are made locally, and often are based on a 45dB night-time noise limit, so that turbines are sited no closer than 350m (roughly 1100 feet); 350-700m is often considered a reasonable setback in the US, based on simple sound propagation modeling. Though it is also common for larger set-backs to be used, 1000m or 1500m setbacks are rarely required.

Small town governing bodies are generally ill-equipped to address the questions before them when wind energy companies apply for local permits. In many cases, the proposed wind farm is the first outside industrial facility to be proposed in the town; it is almost always the first 24/7 noise source to appear in the local rural landscape and soundscape.

Energy company experts attend town council or selectmen meetings, often submitting comprehensive documentation that is rarely fully comprehensible to the lay members of the town's governing body. While these documents don't generally promise anything quiter than 45dB, the outside experts too often assure local officials that the wind farms will be inaudible--relying on flawed assumptions that high winds will always create enough increase in ambient noise to drown out the turbines. The use of comparisons, such as "a kitchen refrigerator" or "traffic 100 yards away" is likewise a common way of reassuring locals--one such expert went so far as to assure a council that the 45dB drone of turbine noise was "comparable to" bird song on a summer afternoon!

"There are no rules and regulations on windmills," Paul Cheverie, chairman of the Eastern Kings Community Council (Prince Edward Island, Canada) said. "The more we get into it, the more we realize we jumped the gun."



Wisconsin towns and counties have been especially proactive in implenting wind farm ordinances. In addition to Calumet County (above), another county adopted a one-mile setback requirement. The state legislature is likely to consider new measures to adopt statewide regulatory standards and preempt these local initiatives. [SOME WISCONSIN NOISE ORDINANCES]


The World Health Organization has found that sound levels during nighttime and late evening hours should be less than 30 dBA during sleeping periods to protect children's health. They noted that a child's autonomous nervous system is 10 to 15 dB more sensitive to noise than adults.

Manufacturer measurements of the noise emission of their units is often based on optimized laboratory conditions and perfectly new machines; thus, the predicted noise output is likely the lowest that could occur with that particular turbine design. As units age, it is also to be expected that mechanical noise at least will increase (and perhaps aerodynamic noise as well, depending on wear of the blades themselves); a visit to most wind farms will confirm that some towers are louder than others.


Indeed, official noise standards can very easily fail to protect nearby residents from disruptive levels of noise. It is crucial that everyone involved (industry, government, residents) resists the easy temptation of relying on "paper" assurances that wind turbines will not create acoustic impacts. Working from a realistic foundation, siting and permitting decisions can proceed in a manner that protects both local residents and the long-term potential for wind energy generation.

Anonymous said...

"From GE Power"
I would not refer to this company for anything! Bill O'Rielly exposed this company for all of it's wrong doings!

"It is important to recognize that night-time ambient noise levels in rural areas are often 35dB or lower"
This is too vague when it is stated "rural areas", Mr. Freeman from Ulysses tested "natural sound" levels on Fox Hill and it ranged from 30 to 75 dbs with the device he used to measure noise/sound.

Maybe our commissioners need to have testing done in the locations the wind turbines are being placed rather than from a test done in a different rural area.

The turbines I researched were 8 years old not new models and the leaves blowing in the wind were making more noise than the turning blades. While standing about 850 feet from them, farther down the road in the same area car exhausts were drowning out the noise as well.

Anonymous said...

The proposed county noise regulation is 5dbs above ambient. If the turbines make so little noise as some people believe, than this regulation is a mute issue. If they make more noise than some people believe, than the ones that would be effected are protected.
Why are pro-wind people (lessors) concerned about this regulation in the county ordinance unless they truly know that they are wrong but are willing to cause someone harm all in the diguise of "money for me, screw you".

Anonymous said...

"I would not refer to this company for anything! Bill O'Rielly exposed this company for all of it's wrong doings! "

The quote from GE power was from their wind turbine web site.


So you are saying we we should not listen to what one of the worlds leading suppliers of wind turbines with over 8400 worldwide turbines installations and over 20 years of expertise says about turbine siting and risk management because an entertainer on the television has "exposed" them.

Or is this another pro-wind site spouting pro wind propaganda?

Anonymous said...

"Mr. Freeman from Ulysses tested "natural sound" levels on Fox Hill and it ranged from 30 to 75 dbs with the device he used to measure noise/sound."

Note: Researcher, Mr. Freeman spoke at the county meeting at the Court House on Sept. 12. Read what he said in the Leadr Enterprise. He proved in less than three minutes that he did not have a clue on what he was speaking about and because his point was so poorly understood by himself, he decided to speak 2 times on the same subject making sure every one new he new nothing about what he was trying to say.

Anonymous said...

"Note: Researcher, Mr. Freeman spoke at the county meeting at the Court House on Sept. 12."

Note to blogger, the meeting was Sept. 11, 2008! So maybe you do not know what you are talking about! Further more, Mr. Freeman's time was up that is why he spoke 2 times as others did that evening.

"He proved in less than three minutes that he did not have a clue on what he was speaking about and because his point was so poorly understood by himself,"

Try to sell your crap to someone that was not there, I was. Tim did a great job in making his point, while testing a quited down court room it ranged in the 50's and that noise level was from our breathing and the noise from the ceiling fans turning!

"If the turbines make so little noise as some people believe, than this regulation is a mute issue."

No it is not a mute issue...why allow something to be on the books that could be used against regulating existing industry? That is the point a lot of business people are making, guess you missed earlier bloggs.

Anonymous said...

I would just like to say THANK YOU to the person that posted the information about safety conserns...

That is the kind of information that i was looking for... All-be-it a little complex... thanks none the less...

Anonymous said...

I must admitt you are right the meeting was sept 11. I bad!

Mr. Freeman thought the turbines had to be below 5 db completely and probably did not know the regulation was 5db above ambient, and probably still doesn't. One of the commissioners tryed to point this out to him. Read the paper it is in black abnd white.

As far as this statement is concerned:

"No it is not a mute issue...why allow something to be on the books that could be used against regulating existing industry? That is the point a lot of business people are making, guess you missed earlier bloggs."

This amendment to the SALDO is clearly regulating wind turbines. What part of "Wind Turbine Regulations" don't you understand. It is not a blanket ordinance regulating all business. It is regulating an industry that has a proven Health and safety record. Health, Safety, and Welfare is what is the important issue here.

Anonymous said...

"What part of "Wind Turbine Regulations" don't you understand. It is not a blanket ordinance regulating all business"

Well let me explain it to you!

It starts out being a regulation for this industry...

Once a stringet regulation is "on the books" in any county it CAN BE USED, STATED, and RECITED in any complaint filed since it is "on the books", got it?!

"It is regulating an industry that has a proven Health and safety record"

Really? This has yet to be proven! Scientific reports are needed for this, not a bunch of yahoo's wanting their 15 minutes of fame on U-Tubes!

Mr. Freeman made very good points in regards to noise/sound, too bad you only read it in black and white! I heard it for myself and also read it in the paper.