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Friday, October 3, 2008

Martha Caldwell-Young Writes

Hi, Jim.

I've been reading your blog for a while now and really enjoy the give and take. Plus, I seem to find a lot more local news here than in the local papers.
Would it be possible for you to post the attached article? Please let me know. Thanks.
- Martha Young


The following information was submitted to the Pennsylvania’s Potter County Commissioners during their regular meeting, open to the public, on September 25, 2008. I appeared before them regarding the county’s draft ordinance for industrial wind energy facilities, to request a 1-mile setback from non-participating landowner property lines. I went in search of documentation to defend this request, and the materials presented were the results of this search. Links to these documents can be found on either of these web pages. Just scroll to the bottom of the article.


Wisconsin has been a proving ground for industrial wind turbines. Much has been documented about their experience. The Large Wind Turbine Citizens Committee from the Town of Union published a Setback Recommendations Report. It is the most comprehensive document I have found to date. More.....


Anonymous said...

When I read about the windmill it makes me laugh that everyone has such a problem with them. I see that someone wants a one mile set back, why not make it a ten mile cause no one will have them instead lets build some coal fired generators that coal dust isn't too bad or maybe a nucular power generator potter county never had one of those, lets rebuild the Austin Dam and put in a water generator. One thing that I heard about the windmill that would really make a person think twice is a bird got killed on one and i understand that since I have had three birds hit my office windows this summer and they died so I took the glass out to prevent that. Get real the windmill is quite no pollution and they look awesome I've seen then but couldn't hear them.

Anonymous said...

Why don't you read what Ms. Young submitted to the Commissioners before commenting?

I'm glad it makes you laugh. Try reading the facts and arguments found in her research and refute them. More coal plants are being built. I think we will see more nuclear power plants too, because it makes sense. The market is driving those sources of energy.

If I was one of the Commissioners or a Township Supervisor I would certainly be listening to and learning from people like Ms. Young. If everybody put 10% of the effort that she has put we could actually have an intelligent debate on this subject.

For what it's worth, I think folks on both side of the issue are guilty of not doing their homework, although the folks who favor real protections and/or who are against industrial wind power in areas like Potter County where there is marginal wind seem to be much more thoughtful in their arguments.

Anonymous said...

The blogger says:
"Get real the windmill is quite no pollution and they look awesome I've seen them but couldn't hear them."

Solution: Eye and hearing dotor!

Anonymous said...

A one mile setback is retarded. It may work in a state like Wisconsin where cheese is king but not potter county or even the state of pa. There are way too many landowners. If a land owner has 1000 acres he can up 1-3 on with the commissioners purposed setback. A person would have to have tens of thousands of acres to do a one mile setback.

Anonymous said...

"There are way too many landowners."

That is the point!!!! There are way to many homes for these turbines. They need to be in Wisconsin, not Potter County.

Anonymous said...

People should read Ms. Young's presentation and research to the Commissioners before commenting.

If everyone put 10% of the time and energy that Ms. Young has put into researching this issue we would have a much more intelligent and meaningful debate about it.

People need to get informed...especially township supervisors.

Thank you Ms. Young.

Anonymous said...

you can't move to farm land and complain about the smell of cow shit.

Anonymous said...

Martha's comment was very civil and well written after what appears to be thorough research on the subject.Take away the taxpayer incentives and the cow is dead before it starts producing sour milk! Brad Jones

Anonymous said...

This bloger says:

"you can't move to farm land and complain about the smell of cow shit."

Ms. Young, your research is outstanding, you are a true asset to the area. I was sorry to read the comment above, this does not represent the majority of the people of Potter county.
If you read carefully the nasty comments made on the blog you will see that they mostly come from one person posting many comments.

Anonymous said...

Myabe the "retired" people that live here and do not want the wind tirbines need to be in Wisconsin, not Potter County!

"There are way too many landowners."

That own farm land with no buildings on it, pay taxes on this vacant land and have rights too!

Which I am sure they will enforce here soon IF the stringent ordinances are passed, I hope they shut down every side of their land and put DO NOT ENTER! If people want to enjoy the land they keep open to the public, you better speak up and back your neighbor's rights too! When the "out of towners" come to enjoy these 1,000's of acres and read the signs what will our PCVA tell them? Oh that is right, the star gazers will save Potter Coonty from economic ruin, forgot! Ha

IF our "dream team" wants to dictate based on fear from SGC maybe the county and SGC should put their money where there mouths are and BUY THE LAND! Sounds like a plan to me!

Anonymous said...

" put their money where there mouths are and BUY THE LAND! Sounds like a plan to me!"

List it with a Realtor & put a market price on it, if it's really for sale.

But it's not really for sale now is it?

Anonymous said...

I would not know because it is not my land therefor it is not my place to tell them what they can and can not do with their land...that was the point! Make them an offer! Ha

Anonymous said...

Industrial Wind Turbines (not windmills) are an issue that needs
tons of research and development.
There are too many people who choose to refute, out of hand, the research being done by Ms.Young
and others who are worried about
their neighbors. IF the land leasers had one drop of concern
for their neighbors, we would not
be in this sorry mess. Some of
these areas of development
are as much 'residential' as
farmland, especially when crops are being planted right up to
garage doors. If the farmers wanted all of this land to be farmland...why didn't they gobble
up every inch and not permit homes in??? My land could have easily been purchased by a farmer.

One downstate farmer has pitted
neighbor against neighbor and
it will not end happily for anyone.

If they get built, the very people who wanted them, will be very sorry
sad people....turbines are now well
over 500 feet tall and with our
limited wind capacity..that might
be what AES plans to utilize.

Once again, 500 feet or more
is not a windmill. Please read more, talk less. Please.

Anonymous said...

the person talking about manure makes a good point. You should not move next to a farm and complain about normal farming activities.

I would argue you certainly have a right to complain about industrial development.

Folks...let's not screw up what makes Potter County such a unique and beautiful place. We're all really fortunate to have what we do here, but our generation could destroy it for good, if we're not careful.

I'm not crazy about being surrounded by subdivisions, but that arguably would make a lot more sense than industrial wind turbines and also give the farmer or landowner a return on his investment.

Other township supervisors-- please don't rush into a weak ordinance. Please look out for all of your constituents or leave this matter to the County which is much better equipped to deal with it.

Anonymous said...

We will pee on all you peons from the top of our windmills, commissioners, supervisors neighbors, stargazers included. It's to late now, give up before you look more stupider
just watch us roll over you. Ha

Anonymous said...

Why is it we can send a man to the gas chamber or electric chair on the testimony of 2 people,
yet when 100's of people claim noise and vibration from wind turbines, no one believes them and the windsalesman call for "scientific studies" as proof?

Wind Farm Project awarded to Contractor who would place it the farthest from shore.

How much revenue can the winning vendor recover? No one knows for sure. Once the wind farm is up and running, GSOE will have to find a buyer for the power. All of the power will count as renewable energy credits,

Where will winning vendor build? The project will be built 16 to 20 miles off the coast of Atlantic and Cape May Counties. At that distance, the turbines are barely visible.

How does operation fit into context of clean energy initiatives? Solar and offshore wind have some of the highest potentials for generating electricity in with clean and renewable sources.

Anonymous said...

"We will pee on all you peons from the top of our windmills, commissioners, supervisors neighbors, stargazers included. It's to late now, give up before you look more stupider
just watch us roll over you. Ha"

An Industrial Wind installation has nothing to do with farming.
It seems that the leasers are
the horrid people in this equation. What a disgusting reviles me.

Industrial Wind installations belong in an industrial zone...

When you land leasing citizens permitted homes to be built near let the horse out of the barn.

This is what will unfold in Ulysses and Bailey Hill. The leasers are real land lovers..and
are showing such respect and love for their neighbors. To me it's
a heart breaker.

Anonymous said...

My wife and I just drove to Wyoming and back and there were windmills in Minnesota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Nebraska and Iowa. Amazingly these turbines were in both rural and highly urbanized areas. Parking next to these impressive looking turbines, we could not hear them and it didn't appear that 1 mile setbacks were instituted.

The Potter County mentality of not in my back yard is one of the many reasons the county is still in the dark ages. Maybe some day the bubble will burst and the backwards thinking mentality will see what the rest of the U.S. and world is seeing.

Research can be manipulated any way one desires. Keep the not in my back yard mentality but at the same time bitching about fuel and energy prices. And you wonder why main street looks like a ghost town.

Anonymous said...

The fact that mr hoopes, AES and others do not own enough land to comply with the suggested setbacks, should not turn out to be a burden to the neighbors or us.

Why is it our problem, they don't own enough land?

All they have to do is go shopping for more land to add to their holdings, in which they can comply. Seems like the way to to have the wind farms and not hurt the neighbors.

Anonymous said...

Me thinks we is being played

Wisconsin Wind Developer's Playbook-- A Study of Wind Energy Development in WI. (4.4M)
Here's the play book for wind developers prepared for the State of Wisconsin, Department of Administration, Department of Administration in July of 2004. The BPRC Research Nerd recommends pages 42-50 (Policy Recommendations) to let you know how specific these instructions are, including what wind developers should wear when they come to speak to rural communities, and how to "cultivate a local champion" or hire someone who is local to help move things along for the developers. This has been done in our community.

Anonymous said...

"The fact that mr hoopes, AES and others do not own enough land to comply with the suggested setbacks"

Don't you wish!

With any luck Ulysses Twp. will follow the other twp.'s that have enacted ordinance's that they feel appropriate for their area. The suggested setbacks by our "dream team" are a joke! I hope all the twp's enable Potter County to install wind turbine's!

Anonymous said...

If property is leased, the company does not need to own the land for setbacks.....that is the whole idea of a lease. Do you think oil and gas companies own all the land they drill?

As stated in an earlier posting, studies can be manipulated many ways.

Anonymous said...

Just remember when these huge things go up, they will NEVER, EVER come back down whether they are efficient or not, so there's a strong possibility in the years to come they may not be functioning or profitable but yet they will forever remain in EVERYONE'S sight!

Anonymous said...

Actually the leases are for 20 years (generally) so there is a specific timeframe. Not forever as you suggest

Anonymous said...

"they will forever remain in EVERYONE'S sight!"

Better double check the ordinances being passed, they must be taken apart and removed in not functioning for a stated amount of time.

More SGC Boo's?

Anonymous said...

Again I repeat, they will NEVER, EVER come down once they are up, no matter what the ordinances say!
Get real!

Anonymous said...

I got a great idea!

Let's give the turbines to all of the folks that want them and they don't get any setbacks:)

After living with one of these on their front or back porches, maybe they wouldn't be so in love with them:)