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Friday, October 8, 2010

Professor Writes About Wind Farms

Opinion
Windfall in New York

By STANLEY FISH
From The New York Times

A few years back, a column I wrote recounting a successful effort by an alliance of citizens to beat back wind-turbine interests in Andes, N.Y., provoked a massively negative response. I was accused (a) of elevating the views I enjoyed from the windows of my second home above the interests of the society in encouraging green energy, (b) of displaying the usual latecomer’s indifference to the needs of the locals who had been living in Andes forever and (c) of not knowing what I was talking about when I described the construction (massively disruptive), effects (awful on land, animals and people), contribution to the grid (minimal) and financing (tax credits and accelerated depreciation rates) of the 400-foot-high towers with a 52-foot circumference base and blades 130 feet wide whooshing through the air at 178 m.p.h.

At the time of that earlier column, Meredith, another small town in Delaware County, seemed to be going in the other direction; the prediction was that the wind companies would succeed there.

But it didn’t turn out that way, More...

29 comments :

Anonymous said...

On Sept 8, 2010 the Ulysses township supervisors Chairman admited that there "back was against the wall" and that they had lost control of the township and were forced to permit the fox hill wind farm in order to keep from being suied by AES.(the wind corporation) The ulysses area was given to the wind industry by the supervisors for a small dollar amount of compensation. Our electric bills will go up because of this contract. (wind power is expensive to produce)The wind farm can not be reassesst for the life of the contract and can not be renegotiated for the life of the contract.
Property values will be destroyed in the tune of millions of dollars and lives will be changed because of the wind turbines. The world will not be saved.
It is a sad day in Ulysses township.

Anonymous said...

When I read this NY Times article, I realized how completely we, the citizens of Ulysses Township, have been duped by the big industrial wind people and betrayed by our township supervisors. I guess we'll have to learn our lessons the hard way. It's sad that so many people and such a beautiful place will suffer. Natural gas will do the same thing. Bravo to the NIMBYs who cared enough to try and protect their homes and the lifestyle they love.

Really??? said...

The Ulysses township board did the right thing, had you NIMBY's listened instead of running your yappers and making so much noise, your township would have received even more revenue from this wind company to help with the cost of township up keep!!! The more money they give your township the more your property taxes would have gone down...duh!!!

These wind turbines will be far apart and will not be right beside your house, the majority of them will in fact be in areas that there are no homes...think about that one!!!

And the one that is complaining that one is being placed close to their property line on purpose is blowing smoke!!! These plans were drawn up over 5 years ago so go wine to someone else that is bumb enough to believe that is it being done to "get even"! Ya right!!

The president is the reason utility taxes are going up not Ulysses Township and it is all utilities not just electric!!!

Anonymous said...

6:48 poster-must be a wind turbine leasor. The rest of us will suffer.

Anonymous said...

I saw the original AES map and there was not a turbine located that close to that house until after the protests began. It was moved to punish a family that was just trying to protect their home. As for taxes, AES NEVER named dollar amounts until the very end, so no one knew what being offered including the township supervisors. AES, like any huge corporation, is going try to get away with giving as little as possible - as little as ignorant people will let them get away with. This is America - we NIMBYs are entitled to fight for the things we love - like our homes and our families, and our way of life. Thank God our constitution lets us scream as loud we want and fight as hard as we can when we're threatened. Greed,corruption, and big money, however, usually prevails over the little man's rights.

Anonymous said...

I guess 6:48 poster thinks the NY Times writer and the people of Tug Hill and the rest - who have been through this already - don't know as much as they do. We'll see who is right when the monsters are built and our peaceful community is gone. Then, when people finally get mad, they'll know who to blame. Not that it will do any good. Our community has already been torn apart by this.

Really??? said...

9:17:00 PM
You are right about one thing, the community has been torn apart by about 12 or so Ulysses township people out of over 600!! Look in the mirror...

9:07:00 PM
No I am not a wind turbine leasor!

9:11:00 PM
"I saw the original AES map and there was not a turbine located that close to that house until after the protests began", careful you know what they say, your nose will fall off from fibbing!!!
That map was drawn up about 7 years ago...tell it to someone that is willing to believe you!

Anonymous said...

There are more of us than 12. You'll see how many people hate these turbines once they're built. AES refused to show a map with exact locations to the public for years. You must, therefore, have been in on the deal from the start to have seen something that we BEGGED to see and were not allowed. Even in the end, AES is still waffling about exact turbine locations and will not be pinned down on any details. So how come YOU know so much? What was your price? More than 30 pieces of silver?

Really??? said...

9:42:00 PM
"So how come YOU know so much? What was your price? More than 30 pieces of silver?"

My my assume away, you know what they say about people that ASSume don't ya, guess you figured it out!

I have no price and stand to make NO money from the wind turbines that are going to be placed in Ulysses twp, you just showed your true colors didn't ya?! Ya, you did! One of the ones pointing fingers stating it is all about the money...not here!

My knowledge is from being interested enough to know the right people involved, guess you aren't...sorry, maybe 15 of you, my mistake!

Anonymous said...

I agree with Really???, I hope all the workers of this company eat at The Downeys when they are in town!

Anonymous said...

"Property values will be destroyed in the tune of millions of dollars"

Are you kidding me?

Millions of dollars, okay, ya right.

Just what is in Ulysses township that could add up to millions of dollars of lost value?

Greg Elderkin said...

"Just what is in Ulysses township that could add up to millions of dollars of lost value?"

It may not be monetary value.

I aint that edu-ma-cated about these giant wind-mills but seems to me that they are more productive by shore lines of very large bodies of water or very large areas of FLAT land. Not in the mountainous regions of Pennsyltucky.

Again, I am just blowing CRAP in the FAN.

Anonymous said...

Greg,

"Property values will be destroyed in the tune of millions of dollars"......


"It may not be monetary value.".....

These are the words THEY used!!

Anonymous said...

So, if they wouldn't give you the info, why in the world would you have ok's the permits for the turbines? Hoopes doesn't own Ulysses, he's just one person. Stand up to him and say NO!!!! Oh, nobody will cause he has money. Money talks and Bullsh** walks.

Anonymous said...

The man who loves the word Yapper...AES doesn't give demerits..there was not more money on the table.. And since I had bobwhite show me the map personally...up close EVEN, I know that the turbine has been moved. Remember Tanker/now Turbine. It is always curious to me that the pro Industrial Turbine people are rude
and find the need to be offensive and distort. AES had no map 7 years ago..the project at that time belonged to Gamesa who left because they felt there was inadequate WIND. Note..NOT ENOUGH WIND.

Anonymous said...

I watched these comments and the one thing lacking is the fact that the only reason AES is doing this is because the federal and state government (yes us taxpayers) gives out incentives and tax credits plus (and this is documented) that worldwide multibillion dollar corporation looks for rural areas where people are not well educated on energy issues and where they can entice (read that as bribe if you want) elected officials to let down their guard and give AES their own way.

Anonymous said...

9:39 I agree hole heartedly. I hope you meant that the enticement (bribe) is to the township itself and not to the supervisors. It is legal but it is wrong. It is a case of the International Giant Corporation asking the township how much it will cost to buy off the regulations and allow us to build these things in your rural area where the people won't realize what we're doing until it is too late. It is despicable that a small handful of people went to such extreme measures to walk all over everyone else in the township and pave the golden road for this Giant to walk all over the township. Forming their own Planning Commission, passing their own Subidivision Ordinance that gives AES the keys to the kingdom and keeping everything secret (like the host community agreement with AES) and hoping that the people don't catch on to what's really happening.
Oh and then labeling the handful of people who do understand what is happening as radicals and rabblerousers.
AES got it's wish. The federal and state subsidies and tax incentives pour into their international stockholders bank accounts and the good people of the township who trust their supervisors and have their head in the sand wake up after it's too late. Sorry to be the bear of bad news here but that is exactly what happened in Ulysses Township. A handful of locals will make money. Everyone else and that includes state and federal taxpayers will make that possible. Then as the years go by and we are converting stuff over to natural gas and the state and federal gimmees all dry up it will be too late and the township will have these relics to listen to and look at for decades.

Really??? said...

8:05:00 AM
So Hoopes is the only person with a lease with this company, or is it the only person you choose to mention?

I find it funny how there are quit a few other people as well as business owners that have signed leases and some of you people have such a hard on for Hoopes that you are blinded by that fact, this is getting old!!!


9:06:00 AM
And you Foe people are sooo polite, get a grip man!!!
A sense of humor could help you out.....I thought that Potter County Billboard was quit funny ;)
You know what you know and I know what I know, it is what it is.....

Anonymous said...

11:30:00 AM

"as the years go by and we are converting stuff over to natural gas"

What?

Convert to natural gas, are you kidding me?

Maybe YOU will be converting to natural gas but I for one will stick to my wood boiler!

Oh, wait a minute, do you have a lease with a gas company?

Ya know the ones that are going to spoil our water supplies, roads, wild life and land????

Just wondering because you seem to be okay with converting to natural gas but not for the clean green energy of turbines.

Anonymous said...

Shouldnt the 5:32 post be sent to the states attorney general for invesigation.

Is it the blogs responsibility to do this or is it the posters responsibility.

If some of us have had comments that were not posted by this blog for any of the above reasons- can one assume that the 10/8 5:32 post has been found to be in good faith and acceptable of publishing.

Anonymous said...

Turbines and gas are not equals. Sorry. So I won't go there. We have basically inadequate wind in PA all except for the Altoona area.
Department of Energy...see their
wind map. Quite a statement no?

Anonymous said...

Energy is energy, give it up people you had your chance to try to stop the turbines and lost now get over it.

Turbines are a clean form of energy we should be thankful for that and not a smoke spewing plant of some kind in these here hills!

Anonymous said...

All of you people who are behind these wind turbines, are you socialists or are you just far left wing liberal "the government should run our lives and control our economy" believers?
If not for the taxpayers like you and me giving big industry AES enough money in subsidies and tax credits, this project in such a marginal wind area would never be considered.
So you folks who are in favor of this project do support corporate welfare and big government spending and support to pad the pockets of the international fat cat stockholders of AES, correct?
You are saying you do favor my tax dollars and yours going into the pockets of the stockholders of AES to make this boondoggle financially feasible in an area where there is piss poor economics for wind towers.

Anonymous said...

To the person at 11:19 you have opened my eyes to something. If this thing cannot survive on it's own merits then I do not support the corporate welfare going to AES, Hoopes, Barnett, Erickson and the other property owners who probably are indeed supporting the left wing Obama Democrats socialist agenda that takes my tax dollars and your tax dollars and stuffs that money in the pockets of the big corporation and those land owners.
I work hard for my money but I guess I really do owe it to Hoopes, Erickson, Barnett and AES as they deserve MY earnings. Thank you for your comment above.
Mr. Hoopes, Mr. Erickson, Mr. Barnett and especially you investors around the world who own stock in AES -- will you at least send me a thank you card for giving you my tax dollars for your welfare? I do believe in sharing and taking care of my fellow man.

Anonymous said...

Thank you. And will your home still retain any value? I will have a mortgage larger than the value of the house..why...so I can have shadows twirling on my lawn..you do know the setback starts at MY front door..not Mr. Hoopes...my front door. And if I fight for my medical rights to have it go away there will be some new form of harassment. That turbine will make me ill....and I shouldn't have to fear speaking up.
There is so much more here that no one knows about and I am muzzled for fear
of retribution. The tanker..no due cause. The offense Mr. Hoopes accused me of was not something my husband or I did. When the man who did the deed stepped
forward, my husband was still forced to write a letter of apology (for nothing)
to satisfy Mr Hoopes to move the tanker. Now a turbine will replace the tanker.
I have seen the map and the turbine is far closer to my home and a much
larger turbine to boot. I begged Mr. White of AES four years ago that for health
reasons to please put no turbine in front of me....what wonderful people. Who of you truly trusts Corporate America...or corporate anyplace and who of you
wants an energy program planned by land leasers and energy companies. How
self serving can you get. For the people, of the people....huh?

And these men represent our township. Ora pro nobis.

Anonymous said...

It is not too late for the good people of Ulysses Township who learn of this travesty to do something about it. Our news media is too busy writing all the lurid details of child molesters and plastering Game Commission propaganda on every page to actually get out and cover this news so most people in the township do not realize what has been happening with this issue.

Anonymous said...

True true true. Our newspapers say nothing. Well, they speak up about the lovely trees that AES has offered the Millers to cover the NOISE..who knows...but, in truth, once again, AES offered no trees whatsoever. Joke after joke in the giant fib department. Everyone quakes...fear fear fear...what if we had all banded together and held tight and done something that
required TRUE CHARACTER. Our children need to see us acting with character and not from weakness. I can't defend my land because my daughter married aunt poo's poo's son and it will cause chaos...oh dear. ho hum. ho hum Ulysses. Poor lame tragic and predicted by AES.

IT'S A SAD SAD SITUATION AND IT'S GETTING SADDER EVERY DAY.

Anonymous said...

I do know it's to cover shadow flicker...ha ha...of course never offered at all...but how the heck do you cover the howl...OMG what stupidity....pull it. Poor girl will suffer horribly and she's said that over and over and over again as nicely as she can...honest to God if you want people to see your humanity, SHOW IT. Pull that turbine if you're the wonderful hero on the white horse you say you are??!!

Anonymous said...

I know: And it's getting more and more absurd....but the other line is my spin! But then more absurd works too. Goodnight Ulysses.